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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Message Wall:19558 article.
  • Spottedstar
    Spottedstar closed this thread because:
    Topic moved to a community vote on the Wiki Consensus board
    19:31, May 26, 2014

    (Continuing from mine and Vapor's discussion on getting rid of the shipping blogs. Anyone is free to contribute to this if they want.)

    VaporMist said:
    It's not just that it's annoying, it's how it's been more of a hindrance to the wiki than anything, way more than stuff like the badge system was. The cons far outweigh the pros, and I don't see how moving it to the forums would really change anything.

    Well, the badge thing (I think) was a different matter, especially because it was (and still is) flawed. But anyway, this discussion isn't about the badges...

    I should've posted about this weeks ago, but here's why I'm trying to be supportive of (or trying to revise, rather) the socializing activities on this wiki - shipping discussions included:

    I've been conflicted about social activities on here since I first came to the wiki. ("How does this help our articles?", "This is a wiki, not a forum or fan club," and all that stuff.) Particularly just before "30 Days" was about to start, I wasn't sure whether the event's discussion activities should take place on the forums or the blogs. Then that led to me thinking about how we keep our social activities organized, and how the blogs weren't really helping with it. So I decided to seek some advice from some other editors on Wikia, and around that time this staff blog was posted. I left this comment, and two users (one being the staff member who posted the blog) gave some pretty good feedback.

    In sum, this is what they said:

    • Community socializing can help bring in new editors who maybe don't want/don't know how to edit articles.
    • It helps new editors to connect with other users and feel more comfortable with editing. (This is why they think it wouldn't be a drawback or hindrance to the wiki, which is one of my biggest concerns.)
    • Because our topic is more directed towards younger people, socializing is a definite draw-in for new editors.
    • It can help make the wiki more successful by having not only an encyclopedic resource, but also a fan discussion area. (This is something I think will be important later, particularly when KFP3 starts to kick into high-gear in the media.)
    • Forums are better to host social activities than blogs because (1) they only show up once in the Activity list; (2) there's less of a chance to have repeated topics (if we organize it right); and (3) it allows you to mix up conversations: wiki-related and subject-related.

    I'm not saying that these two users know 100% everything to managing wiki socializing (although the staff member definitely has more experience than I do), but I do think we should at least give their suggestions a try. And if we see that it's not working out here, then we can always change it up later.

    So more specific to the shipping discussions, it's for sure one of the more popular subjects in the fandom. I wish it wasn't, but it is. If we're going to give the social stuff a try, we need to have at least one thread or board with ships.

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    • I thought new forum posts did show up in Recent Activity... maybe I just don't remember. I don't think that's really the problem though. I still doubt that moving the topic will make much of a difference, but I guess we can give it a try. Not having anonymous comments anymore might help too.

      edit: And I see my comment is showing up in RA.... Am I missing something?

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    • VaporMist said: edit: And I see my comment is showing up in RA.... Am I missing something?

      Yes, but notice how the thread itself has only one space on the list. Since I posted this comment, it's now the most recent and yours is the older one. That's what I meant by "only showing up once". In blogs, even if it's the same blog, each new comment has its own space on the list (as you can see currently at the bottom of the list with all of the recent comments in the TixPo blog).

      I'm glad to hear you're willing to give it a try. :) And like I said: if things don't work out, we can change stuff later if we need to.

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    • Yeah, I see how it works. That is a nice feature.

      So are we moving all blogs to the forum, or just some? 

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    • That's what I'm trying to figure out. I guess we should move them all, but then there wouldn't be any more need for the blogs and we'd have to disable them. I know that's kind of the point of this, but blogs can still be useful if they're not used for pointless commenting or idle chatting.

      I'm thinking if we keep user blogs on here, then maybe we should have some kind of criteria list on which kind of topics should be in the forums, and which should be in blogs?...

      I don't know. Maybe I'm just being too indecisive. :P What do you think?

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    • If the forum's going to be for discussion, maybe commenting on blogs should be disabled and they can be used more for announcements/ updates, or any non-KFP topic?

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    • That sounds like a good idea. Although I actually think using the forums for announcements/updates is a little bit more useful because we can highlight it. But non-KFP topics should definitely stay out of the forums.

      I know of a JavaScript code that disables blog comments automatically after a specified period of time. We could try that, and also maybe modify the time if we ever need to.

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    • Spottedstar
      Spottedstar removed this reply because:
      Not related to board topic
      01:51, November 26, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • It's long overdue, but I'm now trying to get the Forums up and running. I'm still not totally positive what we're going to do with the blogs, but for now we can hopefully at least get the Forums working.

      For now all I've done was add a discussion board, and also updated the Policies/FAQs a little so it doesn't get out of control. If there's anything else that should be added (to the Forums, the Policies, etc.), or if there are any other ideas on what to do with the blogs, let me know here so we can talk it out. :)

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    • There's also a friendly awesome chat for people to chat in ;) Everyone seems to forget about it. Lol. I'm all for a fully-functional forum. Forums are definitely one fo the best ways to bring people tofgether. I just wish Wikia had a BETTER forum system. Somehow I don't find it to be the easiest thing to use. But I'm sure in time it will become more accessible and integrated to the wiki. 

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    • Zaralith said:
      There's also a friendly awesome chat for people to chat in ;) Everyone seems to forget about it. Lol. I'm all for a fully-functional forum. Forums are definitely one fo the best ways to bring people tofgether. I just wish Wikia had a BETTER forum system. Somehow I don't find it to be the easiest thing to use. But I'm sure in time it will become more accessible and integrated to the wiki. 

      It might just be personal preference, but I'm much more of a forum person than I am a live chat person. I've been like that since I first became heavily integrated into those activities when I was 14. I think it's because of "commitment pressure," meaning that if I joined chat, I'd have to dedicate at least a half an hour to a conversation. But with forums, you can step in and out of the conversation whenever it's most convenient for you, and that's always worked out best for me. :)

      I agree that Wikia's forums aren't really the most efficient setup (at least compared to popular ones like Proboards), but I actually think it's easier to use than their old setup. The old one required much more manual organizing with sub-pages and categories, especially if you wanted to have a working "Search" feature on the front page. It was too much for me to handle at the time, which is why I never got around to it. So these forums are better, in my opinion, but could definitely use some more developing.

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    • Update: I've now just added a board for official wiki consensus stuff. I've been wanting to make something like it since I first joined this wiki, and I think it'll become very useful. If there are any voting circumstances or discussion topics that require community input (and we do have quite a few), we can do it on that board. :)

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    • VaporMist said: (in this thread)
      And I'm guessing we won't be having the same topics in both places? Like a KFP 3 discussion thread when there's already a blog?

      I still have no idea what to do with the blogs. Honestly, I think I would be fine with the blogs being used for whatever if the comments didn't annoyingly fill up the activity feed. (I really wish Wikia would update them to be formatted the same way as forum comments.) But that's now only half of the problem. With all of this deciding on what should go in the forums, on the Answers Wiki or in the blogs, I've had a few complications on deciding where to clearly draw the line.

      Here's my dilemma put into a bulletpoint list (mainly for me in keeping my thoughts organized):

      • Your earlier idea of disabling comments I think is good and bad:
        • It's good obviously because it's one of the main problems in this discussion. No comments, no filling-up the activity list with the latest comment war on why Tigress and Po belong together.
        • It's bad because from a non-administrator point of view, I wouldn't like not having the option to share my opinion on something I like/agree or dislike/disagree about the blog's topic and the user's written opinions.
        • The compromise of this, then, would be that we would maybe have blog comments disable after a certain amount of time. I think I like that idea better than disabling them altogether. I think what Wikia wikis do is have them disable after 30 days, which sounds okay with me.
      • Also from your earlier idea, we can't have the blogs be about announcements/updates because we now have a board for that, of which I can highlight and add topics to.
      • The main goal for any kind of social activity on here is to keep discussions related to the wiki and/or its topic. There wouldn't be any point in allowing non-KFP stuff to be posted because there's likely another wiki about it that would have tons more readers that all like that topic. Just like how the wiki's policies tell everyone to not publish their fan art or fan fiction here because there are dedicated sites to those activities, there are also dedicated wikis to those topics. Anything that is put on this wiki has to be related to KFP in one way or another; it's how we keep our credibility as a KFP website and stay connected to one other without being left out.

      I wish I had a separate list of what the blogs (or any kind of self-publishing wiki feature) could be used for that doesn't contradict any of the above. Maybe we could come up with something like that in this thread?...

      However, I do know that whatever we have discussion-wise in the blogs right now (like the KFP3 blog) should probably be moved to the forums. I like the feature of adding topics to threads and having a link to the thread at the bottom of that topic's article. Something like that might be able to get more activity than blogs that aren't linked from anywhere else.

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    • lol That we're still talking about what to do with the blogs in this thread...

      I do agree about keeping things KFP-related, but if blog discussions are moved, I don't think that leaves much except for the "archived" stuff like the 30 Days event and the music downloads. It seems pretty unnecessary to continue with blogs if they're just going to be used like threads but with a time limit for commenting... Maybe we should just keep it simple and use the forums from now on.

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    • VaporMist said:
      I do agree about keeping things KFP-related, but if blog discussions are moved, I don't think that leaves much except for the "archived" stuff like the 30 Days event and the music downloads. It seems pretty unnecessary to continue with blogs if they're just going to be used like threads but with a time limit for commenting... Maybe we should just keep it simple and use the forums from now on.

      Maybe I'll look around some other wiki communities and see (maybe even ask) what they do with their blogs, but for now I think you're right. Both features are too similar to try and draw out lines, so it would probably be best to just stick with one.

      That said, I think I'll create a community vote on disabling them. Hopefully other people agree and we can get to moving blog stuff over to the forums as soon as possible, but if they disagree and the vote turns out that way, we'll have to revisit this discussion.

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